U-Boot Type VIIC- U-201

[vr.lenin]

Zdravím pány ponorkáře.Sháním barevné provedení nákresů kamufláže na U-201 období 1941-42.Ony totiž byly v tomto období dvě verze pokud se nemýlím.Budu strašně rád za každý příspěvek.Díky moc.

[zbynek.skopan]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthr ... ?p=1077340
nevím ale prošel bych toto fórum

[vr.lenin]

Zbyňku,všechno jsem prošel,postahoval spoustu e-příruček,ale nikde nic.Je docela škoda,že na ponorky WWII je strašně málo barevných bokorysů.Dokonce ani v knize Německé válečné ponorky jsem toho moc nenašel.Jen snad v Modeláři 01,02/2007 je popis stavby U-201,ale stašně strohej.Takže kdyby někdo ještě něco,tak šup sem s tím.

[zbynek.skopan]

no já mám Im Focusy tak se na tu 201 mrknu..

[vr.lenin]

Zbyňku našel jsem tohle,ale jsem z té červené docela v pasti.I ta horní tmavší barva je udávaná jako/LAUBGRUN 364(zelená jako listí)sice byla udávaná v r.1942.Neměl by být spodek fouklej prachově šedou 77(staubgrau)???????? .Díky za radu.Venca

Přílohy

[vr.lenin]

Nikdo nic k mé otázce???

[zbynek.skopan]

zdroj je víc než pochybný

Přílohy

[Petr Vaněk]

Ne, nikdo... Další dotaz?
Ale vážně, je to docela pakárna, když tu člověk něco pověsí a týden se nikdo neozve, co?

[Petr Vaněk]

Hmm - a co ty červené břuchy? (Pro puristy: A co ta červená břicha?)

[zbynek.skopan]

mohu zaslat publikaci v PDF o kamuflážích, kde se píše že červená barva je rize fikce ilustrátorů....

[zbynek.skopan]

cituji:
" Lower hull colours
A number of side profiles, drawings and illustrations show U-boats with red lower
hulls and black bootlines, and these have sparked countless debates within the
modelling community. Many commentators maintain that no U-boats, either before
or during the war, ever had red anti-fouling paint beneath the waterline. Another
opinion is that at the very start of WWII some U-boats had red lower hulls, but at the
next dry-docking they were painted dark grey. Other opinions hold that while some
pre-war boats may have been red, all wartime boats were dark grey.
In the book Die Deutschen Uboote Geheim 1939-1945 (German U-Boat
Secrets 1939-1945) by Richard Lakowski (Brandenburgisches Verlagshaus, 1997),
there are two editions of the building regulations form Nr. 31, which specifies the
application of paints upon U-boats. These can be found at –
http://www.u-boot-archiv.de/dieboote/fa ... _1940.html
http://www.u-boot-archiv.de/dieboote/fa ... _1944.html
The March 1940, November 1941 and July 1944 editions of this building
regulation all state that the external sections of the lower hull were to be painted with
two coats of anti-corrosion paint followed by one coat of the anti-fouling dark grey
paint Schiffsbodenfarbe III Grau (DKM 23a, literally “ships bottom colour 3 grey”).
This was called Wasserlinienfarbe W.L. III Grau (literally “water line colour W.L. 3
grey”) in the first two editions, but as previously mentioned this was exactly the same
paint as Schiffsbodenfarbe III Grau. Finally, another coat of Schiffsbodenfarbe III
Grau (DKM 23b) was to be applied. 23b was exactly the same paint as 23a; the
letters were used to specify that two coats were to be applied. There is no mention
anywhere in these regulations of Dunkelblaugrau (RAL 7026), which is included in
the Snyder & Short paint chip cards and White Ensign Models’ KM paint range
(Colourcoats KM03).
The otherwise excellent Type VII U-Boats (Brockhampton Press, 1998) by
Robert C. Stern includes erroneous information on hull colours which directly
contradicts the painting regulations. It is stated by Stern that, “the underbody was
supposed to have been painted with a red anti-fouling compound but seems just as
often as not to have been covered with the dark grey waterline colour,” and that, “the
upper surfaces of the saddle tanks and the band on the boat’s side between normal
trim waterline and lightest trim waterline were painted dark grey.” Both statements
are unquestionably erroneous: the wartime regulations call for dark grey anti-fouling
paint and no bootline. Given the quality of Stern’s book, it is very surprising that he
should have made these obvious errors.
The artists who produced the drawings of wartime U-boats with red hulls and
bootlines may have been influenced by the standard Kriegsmarine surface unit
colours of red-brown hull - Schiffsbodenfarbe III Rot (DKM 22a and 22b, RAL8013,
Colourcoats KM04) - and dark grey (Wasserlinienfarbe W.L. III Grau) bootline.
Some artists may also have known that dark grey was the real colour used on wartime
U-boats, but preferred to opt for red. The red hull provides a much more visually
stimulating drawing than the drab, featureless grey, and artistic license may well have
negated historical accuracy. The Amati 1/72nd U 47 kit is a perfect example of this.
The model shown on the box has a red hull, yet the instructions specify that dark grey
should be used. I suspect that marketing considerations may have taken precedence
over accuracy.
The wartime painting regulations are thankfully available to us, but the pre-war
painting regulations are, unfortunately, not in common circulation. These pre-war
regulations would likely have shed light on the question of whether red anti-fouling
paint and dark grey bootlines were applied to pre-war boats at any stage. It is
especially regrettable because in black and white photographs it is impossible to
distinguish with any degree of certainty between a red and a dark grey hull.
Since the U-boat arm had been experimenting with the colours above the
waterline in the years leading up to the commencement of hostilities, could it have
been possible that they also experimented with the colours below the waterline? A
comment by U 35 veteran Kurt Grosser suggests to me that colours other than dark
grey were used in pre-war times. He maintains that when he reported aboard U 35 in
April 1939 the lower hull of this U-boat was dark green. We should be extremely
careful when dealing with veterans’ memories of the colours used 60 to 65 years ago,
but this comment is interesting in light of the fact that a green anti-fouling paint -
Schiffsbodenfarbe I Grün (DKM 24a and 24b) - was mentioned in the 1944 painting
regulations.
If some experimentation had taken place, and it appears that it did, then it may
be impossible to disprove the possibility that some pre-war U-boats may have had red
hulls. Although there is no positive confirmation of pre-war red hulls, how can we be
certain without having access to every edition of the pre-war painting regulations that
they did not exist?
There is a colour photograph in existence showing Joachim Schepke holding a
toy model of a pre-war U 29 with a thick bootline and red hull. I am certainly not
suggesting that this constitutes evidence of the use of red anti-fouling paint or
bootlines on lower hulls. The manufacturer of the toy model possibly assumed, just as
some people do today, that the red anti-fouling paint in common use upon other
vessels of the Kriegsmarine was used upon U-boats. I mention this because I find it
amusing that the possible erroneous use of red on U-boat models may have started as
early as 1940 or 1941!
Having studied a number of photos of wartime U-boats coming off the slips
and in dry-dock, I have not to date seen any evidence of any bootlines on any of these
wartime boats. While an appreciable bootline might be difficult to discern in some
black and white photographs, I have seen enough good quality images of exposed
wartime U-boat hulls to convince me that bootlines were not applied to wartime
boats. Neither have I discerned a bootline on any of the photos I have seen of pre-war
boats with their lower hulls exposed. Some of these photos are of an excellent
quality, and a bootline would certainly be discerned if present on the hull observed.
However, I have not seen enough pre-war photos showing exposed lower hulls to be
certain that bootlines were not present on some pre-war U-boats.
Lastly, due the increasing strain which the Ubootwaffe was under, and the
sheer number of U-boats produced, the possibility of the odd exception cannot be
discounted. It is plausible to suggest that adherence to the painting regulations
became of a much lesser priority, particularly towards the end of the war. In some
cases, paints that were to hand must surely have been used rather than the paint
specified in the regulations.
To conclude, I find that although there is no positive evidence of the use of red
on pre-war hulls, the possibility cannot be completely discounted. But I would
suggest that it would be prudent of modellers who choose a pre-war U-boat not to use
red unless positive confirmation comes to light. If a wartime U-boat is being
modelled I would recommend a colour somewhere in the region of Schiffsbodenfarbe
III Grau (RAL 7016) for the lower hull."

[vr.lenin]

Super chlopaci,to jsem potřeboval vědět.Díky moc "podvodníci"

[zbynek.skopan]

ano asi jako moje druhá ponorka:

Přílohy

[Petr Vaněk]

Jasně, Zbyňku - ty texty samozřejmě znám. Moje otázka na červená břicha se právě týkala těch barevných bokorysů...

[zbynek.skopan]

to je jen jak člověka blbnou... je zajímavé jak se na našem knižním trhu objevují neustále přepisované encyklopedie.... pro mě je indikatorem právě červený U-boot, a podivný tvar ruských ponorek... (takové s déky vracím do regálu)
Vydavatelství mnohdy sáhnou po staré knize jen proto že je laciná na poplatcích a tady ji přetisknou takřka bez korektůr