Najnovsie info o RLM83

[pufo]

Na LEMB fore sa objavila nova sprava z najnovsieho vyzkumu M.Ulmanna. Vyzera to na prepisovanie knih.
Source: http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forum ... entry91756
courtesy of Gunnar J, Cpt_Farrel, research Michael Ullmann, z LEMB

Gunnar J Posted Yesterday, 11:01 PM

Members

Hello

Michael Ullmann will have some breaking news regarding testing and introduction of RLM81, RLM82 and RLM83. I don't want to take any credits from Michael and it's Michael that should be acknowledged and tell what he has found in the way he wants, but I can't resist mentioned what I heard on Saturday. Michael had a lecture at the "Art in miniature" (IPMS show) in Gothenburg this weekend of his recent archive find's, made in august and he told us we was the first to learn about this NEW info and it was VERY interesting indeed and all previous talk about especially RLM 83 now needs to be rewritten.

What he have found is documents showing the reason to change from RLM70/RLM71 to RLM81/RLM82 and when. The RLM81,RLM82 and (RLM83) colurs had been evaluated, approved and adopted for introduction already in late 43, but that old paint stocks should be used up and therefore was not seen until spring-summer of 44 (on land based fighters as they used up the stocks fastest) and to keep it short that's why some plants didn't make the switch for their production as they had stock lasting until the end of the war.

Now the most interesting thing, Michael has found a document stating RLM83!! he mentioned that he has only seen one document earlier mentioning RLM83 and he then believes it might have been a typing error? This has then been wrongly "adopted" as one of the colours seen on land based aircraft BUT the newly found document states RLM83 was a colour intended for aircraft operating over the Mediterranean (or seas?) together with RLM71? and was stated "DUNKEL BLAU" (Dark blue) and intended for introduction at the same time as RLM81 and RLM82. Question is if this colour was ever implemented for it's intentional use as in late 43-early 44 not much flying operations was conducted over the Mediterranean.

So what we have left is RLM81 and RLM82, RLM82 (Hell Grun) being the lighter version of green and as mentioned here also apparently showed little variation in colour or tone, BUT RLM81 (Olive Grun in document)was all from a dark olive brown to dark green due to no formula specifications was given, all variations seen should now all be traced to RLM81. Old stocks of paints should be used up and therefore different combinations was used up and a lot of repainting was also conducted at unit levels of reasons that's fuel for another topic. I just wanted to share this info given to us attending this lecture and Michael has given his permission to post this.

Regards/ Gunnar

Cpt_Farrel Posted Yesterday, 11:51 PM

Extended Members

I was there too, just a small correction regarding RLM83, it was intended for use with either RLM70 or RLM72 i.e. replacing the lighter color in RLM70/RLM71 or RLM72/RLM73 schemes, on aircraft used for naval operation in the MTO. Additionally RLM83 was only supposed to be applied at unit/depot level, not at the factories.

PS: o tomto asi vedia viacery, starsi objav ale hodi sa aj k tejto teme
http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/2008 ... scoveries/

[Milan Holzapfel]

No jestli se ty knihy budou teď všechny přepisovat do Angličtiny, tak je to pro nás, co moc anglicky neumíme, blbý.
Můžeš Pufo aspoň naznačit o coc se jedná?

[Jozeff66]

Som jednoznacne za,aj ked zhruba viem o co ide.

[pufo]

Samozrejme Milan, objasnim.Neprekladam doslovne ale len fakty, ktore su podstatne.
Pise sa tam o tomto:
M.Ullmann nasiel v Auguste, v archivoch nove dokumenty ohladom RLM81/82/83 - testovanie a zavedenie do systemu kamuflovania.
Z dokumentov vyplyva, ze tieto farby boli pripravene na zavedenie do systemu kamuflovania uz koncom r.1943 a RLM81/82 mali nahradit RLM70/71. Zasoby starych farieb mali byt pouzite az do vycerpania zasob a az potom sa mali pouzit nove odtiene.
RLM83 nie je ziadna tmavo zelena ako sa udavalo doteraz ale je to tmavo modra farba / v dokumente ako Dunkelblau/ ktora mala byt pouzita na lietadla operujuce nad morom a mala nahradit svetlejsi odtien v schemach RLM70/71 a RLM72/73. Dalej sa v dokumentoch pise, ze RLM83 mala byt aplikovana az u operacnych jednotiek a nie vo vyrobe.

[Jozeff66]

A tu je link o najdeni RLM 81 v Cechach,ze farba bola Tmava zelena a nie Hnedofialova. http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/2008 ... scoveries/

[pufo]

A v tom druhom linku, ktory vlozil aj Jozeff66, je sprava od T.Porubu, ze v CR sa nasli original zabalene farby pouzivane v tovarni Diana, ktora vyrabala Bf 109 G-10/U4. Konkretne sa jedna o farby biela, zelena RLM25, strieborna, svetlo modra RLM76, stredne seda RLM75, tmavo seda RLM66 alebo RLM74, tmavo zelena RLM83?
Farby su v dobrobom stave/okrem striebornej/ a daju sa pouzit na vyrobu vzorkovnika.
Bohuzial len 2 etikety z nadob sa dochovali, sice poskodene ale daju sa citat udaje -na jednej z nich, prve cislo je jasne 8, cize sa jedna o farbu rady 8x, druhe cislo vyzera ako 1, takze by to mala byt RLM81 ale v nadobe je tmavozelan farba a nie hnedo fialova ako sa bezne udava odtien RLM81.

Naposledy upravil pufo dne 20 zář 2012, 20:18, celkově upraveno 1

[Lepič obyčajný]

Nuz nepochybne je to zaujimave a cloveku sa vynaraju rozne predstavy ako by to mohlo farebne ladit. Ktovie ako to naozaj bolo. Kazdy to moze vidiet po svojom. Ale dovody na dalsiu diskusiu to su.
Som zvedavy co na to hovoria "odbornici z ludu" ktorych pocuvam na sutaziach a ktori kritizuju kazdu farbu na kazdom modeli ako keby poznali pravdu vsehomira. Ale myslim si, ze o svojej pravde ani teraz nezapochybuju. Je to az komicke.
Koniec koncov, modelarstvo je zabava a netreba to brat smrtelne vazne.

P.S.: Co na to hovoria chemici : moze si farba z vojnovej vyroby v plechovke alebo na kuse plechu schovana niekde v pritmi kolne uchovat svoj povodny odtien aj po sedemdesiatich rokoch ? To je podla mna dost zasadna otazka.

P.P.S.: mala Mozartova "Mala nocna hudba" povodne skutocne pat casti alebo je to len chyba v Mozartovych poznamkach ? Tak isto sa to uz asi nikdy presne nedozvieme.

[jfb]

Emailové a pod. barvy, pokud jsou uzavřené, tak IMHO bez problému. Viz moje asi 25 leté Humbrolky, vypadají v poho.

[Martin Jursa]

normalne mi zacalo byt par ludi luto

[Milan Holzapfel]

Pufo a Jozeff díky za zajímavé informace!! Otázkou samozřejmě je jak ona barva např. RLM 83 ve skutečnosti vypadala. Název může být matoucí. Vzpoměňme jen např. barvu Sky, která je víceméně žlutozelená. Já si tedy pod pojmem "obloha" představím barvu jinou (a tím nemyslím tu oblohu na talíři ). Každopádně díky.

[VojtaH]

Tak a jsme všichni v pr.... ještě že to v Gunze nevědí.

[pufo]

Kto vie ako vyzerala, mozno sa najde aj nejaka vzorka, mozno nebola nikdy pouzita... ale to jej oznacenie ju vlastne vylucuje z pouzitia na late war stihackach, takze schemy RLM82/83, 75/83 ... su uz vlastne minulostou. V schemach sa RLM83 nahradi RLM81-kou, stym, ze sa napise, ze je to zelena alebo hneda varianta - tak si myslim, ze to asi bude.
Ved ono aj zname schemy z fabrik urcovali len RLM81/82. RLM83 v oficialnych schemach spomenuta nebola nikdy.
Ci budu najdene farby z CR pouzitelne, z clanku vyplyva, ze ano/dokonca z nich chcu robit vzorkovnik/ a ci zmenili odtien neviem, ja takymto chemickym veciam nerozumiem.

[VojtaH]

Dokážete si představit Kubrta, jak přestříkává půlku vitríny?

[Jozeff66]

[Karel Pilát]

Pufo a Jozeff díky za zajímavé informace!! Otázkou samozřejmě je jak ona barva např. RLM 83 ve skutečnosti vypadala...

Nenabízí se ten Ju88 B3+MH, co přistál na podzim 43 ve Švýcarsku? Ten měl údajně pod hadama vršek v nějaký podivný tmavý barvě do modra? Jako na potvoru jsem teď nenašel fotku. Mám na něj obtisky, ten zbytek barvy z války se nakonec bude hodit!