Diskusní fórum modelářů

Branko píše:POstav si Dragon 1:35 Smart, tam máš priamo kamo od La Gleize (ten s kovovými kolesami), a model sám o sebe tvorí momentálnu absolutnu kvalitatívnu špičku. A za veľmi dobrú cenu.

i když model tvoří absolutní špičku autor si nakoupil "pár" dopňků http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4661

sry za OT

Bobanski píše:Bitva o Ardeny (Battle of Bulge v originálu) je asi největší válečný shitfilm, jaký jsem kdy viděl...si dodnes pamatuju, jak ho uvaděčka uvedla jako "nejlepší válečný film všech dob"...kdyby asppoň řekla sci-fi, to bych bral
Tam nebojovaly stejné tanky proti sobě, protože Amíci měli M24 Chaffee a Němci Pattony či něco podobného coby Tigery. V té době naprosto běžná praktika hollywoodských fimů.

jo to bude asi ono...(já nevim já se v těch US pixlách nevyznám, ale přišli mi podobný)

Když jsem zakládal toto téma, psal jsem svůj dotaz na základě fotografie v knize Ďáblův pobočník. Konečně jsem se dostal k tomu abych ji začal číst a zjistil jsem zajímavé informace.
V knize je uvedena sestava KG Peiper, ve které vyrážela do pole (16.12.1944). Je zde uvedeno, že Peiper, Werner Poetschke (velitel 1. tankového praporu SS) a Fischer (pobočník Poetschkeho) jel každý v Pantheru.
17.12.1944 se v Büllingenu Peiperův Panther rozbil a Peiper musel přesednout do velitelského Haklu Josefa "Juppa" Diefenthala (velitel 3. granátnického praporu 2. granátnického pluku SS).
Na odkazu níže je popsána cesta KG Peiper s přesným časovým rozvrhem a porucha Peiperova Pantheru je datována již na 16.12. kolem 21:30, jako příčina jsou uvedeny problémy s motorem a číslo Pantheru mělo být 001.

http://web.mac.com/davedepickere/World_ ... Bulge.html

Pokud by se někde našla fotka bylo by to super. Převážnou část Ardenské operace však Peiper prodělal na Haklu. Ať se to však stalo 16. nebo 17. prosince Peiperův Panther existoval.

Přesně tak, pro velitele pluku, nebo jako v tomto případě velitele velké bojové skupiny, by v boji nebylo moc praktické, aby se příliš zdržoval v tanku, ale potřeboval něco efektivnějšího, čím by se mohl ryhle pohybovat po bojišti a udržovat přitom maximální kontakt se všemi podřízenými jednotkami a veliteli. Hádal bych taky, že většínu času strávil spíš v kolopásu. Na základě známých fotek bych to viděl na velitelský Sdkfz. 250 v kombinaci se Schwimmwagenem. Řekl bych, že fotky z křížovatky Malmedy a St.Vith jsou pořízeny ještě před útokem na Stavelot, tedy nejspíš 17.12. odpoledne, nebo maximálně 18.12. ráno. To už tedy očividně v Pantheru neseděl. Jeho Panther se měl porouchat hned první den útoku večer v Büllingenském lese. Tím skupina projížděla v noci z 16. na 17.12. V tanku tedy seděl za celou Ardenskou ofenzivu maximálně první den.
Fighter

Jen upřesním, že na fotografii ve Schwimmwagenu není Peiper. Měli by to být vlevo SS-Unterscharführer Ochsner a za řidičem stojí SS-Oberscharführer Persin, oba z Kampfgruppe Knittel (Schnelle Gruppe). Ti samí jsou i dvě postavy kráčející před Haklem. Záměna Ochsnera za Peipera je docela častým omylem.

zrovna jsem dočetl vynikající knihu Jochen Peiper a tam se píše, že měl svůj Panther, přesně jak tu již někdo popsal a v publikaci na Pz. IV díl 2 od Trojcy je fotka velitelské Pz. IV G a údajně má jít o Peiperův tank z bitky u Kurska

pepe píše:Jen upřesním, že na fotografii ve Schwimmwagenu není Peiper. Měli by to být vlevo SS-Unterscharführer Ochsner a za řidičem stojí SS-Oberscharführer Persin, oba z Kampfgruppe Knittel (Schnelle Gruppe). Ti samí jsou i dvě postavy kráčející před Haklem. Záměna Ochsnera za Peipera je docela častým omylem.

Přesně tak, fotografií na tomto místě bylo pořízeno více (či snad jde o políčka filmu o úspěšném útoku v Ardenách), na jedné z nich je jasně vidět, že tento muž hodnost SS-Unterscharführera (jeden "čtvereček" uprostřed výložky).
Filip

Já vím, že je to staré téma, nicméně trocha té tapety a textu

KG Peiper & his BoB "ride" January 3 2004, 5:21 AM

Missing Lynx Axis Forum by James Blackwell

Tim, latest info is that SS-Standartenfuhrer (Lt. Colonel) Jochen Peiper's mount during the opening days of the Ardennes Offensive (ie. on or around December 16-17, 1944) is he initially rode in his own Befehls Panther Ausf. G "001" before switching to a 251/3.

Leading from the front, he placed himself and his
Panther at the head of the 25km long road convoy of 800 vehicles which was "Kampf-Gruppe Peiper". The armoured spear-point of which consisted of Panthers and Pz.IVs of SS.Pz.Rgt.1 ¡°Leibstandarte¡± under SS-Sturmbannf¨¹hrer (Major) Werner Poetschke.

Due to the essential need for speed and surprise to take bridges intact that the operation hinged on, coupled with the extreme importance of not chewing up the soft muddy roads (which remember was the entire width of the penetration), for the following support elements, he kept the lumbering and mechanically unreliable King Tigers of s.SS.Pz.Abt.501 right at the rear of his column to avoid them slowing him up and viewed them more as a hindrance than a help.

So for accuracy's sake, beware that its extremely unlikely that in the opening phases at least, that he would have been anywhere near the Tiger IIs if you were planning a dio with the two together - towards the end in and around LaGleize & Stavelot onwards as they caught up to him/the advance began to fold back on itself after its routes were blocked and fuel ran out, and the US net began to close after the 20th, then probably more likely for the two to be seen together.

For a very potted overall background if this helps, due to equipment shortages leading up to the start of the attack, SS.Pz.Rgt.1 was unable to form 2 full Battalions (or Abteilungs) in the Panzer Rgt. as per a normal Panzer Division at full strength (usually organised with their Panthers in I.Abt. (ie. Kp.s 1-4), and the Pz.IVs in II.Abt. (ie. Kp.s 5-9.). So by necessity, they had to amalgamate and combine both into the I.Abt. for this operation only (as mentioned under Poetschke). It consisted of Panthers from 1. & 2.Kp.s, and Pz.IVs from 6. & 7.Kp.s, simply being lumped in together to make up the new look I.Abt., and the Tiger IIs from s.SS.Pz.Abt.501 substituting for the now missing II.Abt.

Evidence that Peiper was initially in his own Command Panther at least for the first few days until it either broke down or was disabled by a mine, can be found in the fairly detailed biography of his life and military career; "Jochen Peiper - Commander Panzer Regiment Leibstandarte" by Patrick Agte, JJF 1999.

From p.480:
"At the beginning of the offensive (c.16-17 Dec) Peiper travelled only in his command Panther. Among his crew were continuous wave radio operator SS-Rottenf¨¹hrer Wilhelm Nu¦Âhag, voice radio operator SS-Rottenf¨¹hrer Paul Schierig and driver SS-Obserscharf¨¹hrer Otto Becker. Peiper's adjutant for the operation SS-Untersturmf¨¹hrer Arndt Fischer, travelled behind Peiper in his Panther. Later Peiper continued on in an SPW." (from c.late 17 Dec on - namely SS-Hauptsturmf¨¹hrer Jupp Diefenthal's 251 (CO of III./SS.Pz.Gr.Rgt.2), + briefly in SS-Untersturmf¨¹hrer Horst Krause's 251 (Abt.Signals Officer).

The initial assembly point for ¡°KG Peiper¡± was Kaiserhaus Forest Haus on Route 51 outside the Blankeheimer Woods on 0200hrs 16 Dec 1944. Following the opening barrage at 0530hrs ¡°KG Peiper¡± moved in behind the front held by 12.Volks Grenadier Div. who were already busy attacking the US held positions at Losheim and Losheimergraben. After making the breakthrough they were to open and provide flank protection for a narrow corridor known as Rollbahn D which the armoured column of ¡°KG Peiper¡± was to push through as the spearhead for the all or nothing German advance to Antwerp.

However while 12.VG Div. took Losheim after heavy fighting that morning, it failed to take the Losheimergraben railroad station of Buchholz till very late in the afternoon, costing the all important breakthrough to be led by Peiper precious time. So it wasn't until 1630hrs on 16 Dec that ¡°KG Peiper¡± began to roll in earnest, but it was soon confronted with a blown bridge 1km west of Schied, which was a major setback. So in desperation and to avoid losing more time, Peiper ordered his vehicles to cross the river unaided, with the column skidding down the steep railway embankment to make the crossing in an attempt to stay on schedule. A feat which they had nearly accomplished by sundown upon reaching Losheimergraben.

Peiper then received new orders to now swing west off the planned advance route towards Lanzerath, but while turning into H¨¹llscheid the lead two Panthers (Peiper¡¯s possibly being one of them) were lost, to of all things, an unmapped German minefield slowing the advance to Lanzerath till midnight. After a frustrating night of trying to unravel a string of bad intell reports delivered from FJ.Rgt.9 and an argument with their CO - who claimed the B¨¹llinger Forest was heavily defended and mined, thus potentially thwarting their proposed supporting attack planned for the following day (which subsequently proved totally erroneous), in the early hours, Peiper finally organised the new attack for 0400hrs. It succeeded without a shot being fired due to the fact the woods were in reality unoccupied. It was only on the other side of the woods that the first surprised Americans were encountered, but the lead elements easily pushed them aside, rolling into Honsfeld with only light opposition at first as the spearhead raced through. Following Panthers and Paras though soon faced much stiffer resistance applied as the startled Americans regrouped, and allegedly supported by Belgian civilians firing from windows, opened up.

Under the weight of fire, SS-Unterscharf¨¹hrer Willi Kritzler's Panther "232", and SS-Untersturmf¨¹hrer Walter Puplik's Panther "235" of 2.SS.Pz.Rgt.1, along with 2 Flakpanzers of 10.SS.Pz.Rgt.1 were KO'd by ATGs. However the breakneck advance continued on to B¨¹llingen with Peiper now in Diefenthal's 251 SPW in which he stayed for the bulk of the remainder of the offensive - though briefly riding in the Sig's Officer SS-Untersturmf¨¹hrer Horst Krause's 251 on the 18th before rejoining Diefenthal's again.

Michael Reynolds' "The Devil's Adjutant - Jochen Peiper Panzer Leader" also supports this on p.83 claiming that;

"Peiper's own Panther had broken down in Bullingen and so from that point on he switched to Diefenthal's command SPW" (probably some time during the morning of the 17th).

On p.90 it goes on to mention him briefly boarding Poetschke's Panther just before 1.oo pm on the 17th to issue a final cease fire order as he caught up to the "spitze" of their column (under Werner Sternebeck) after they had engaged softskin vehicles of B Battery, 285 Field Arty at the N-23/32 Baugnez Crossroads as they crossed paths - (84 of the 113 prisoners of which were later cut down at 2.15pm after he had moved on in the infamous "Malmedy Massacre"). Peiper was apparently annoyed at the waste of potentially useful transport that his tanks had just destroyed. It goes on to say;

"He then transferred to Diefenthal's SPW and drove through the crossroads to catch up with the Spitze which he ordered onto Ligneuville. It was to be followed by the Panther of Poetschke's Adjutant, SS Lieutenant Arndt Fischer, and then Peiper himself and the SPWs of the next SS Panzer-Grenadier company, the 11th. The time was about 1330 hours."

He also used a Schwimmwagen for Recce work at times too over the next few days near Stoumont (p.145)

Hope thats of some use in planning your dio - but if you can, seek out either of these books for a much more detailed and complete picture of this period.